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Martech Stacked Episode 20: The Martech Tool That Picks up all the Data you need and Brings it to your Favorite Platform - with Edward Ford

Blog Post Author – David
8th October 2020

I’m joined today by a Helsinki-based growth marketer who specialises in scaling up B2Bs & SaaS marketing. He’s Host of The Growth Hub Podcast and Marketing Director at Supermetrics. Welcome to Martech Stacked, Edward Ford.

Listen to Martech Stacked on Apple, Google Podcasts or Spotify.

Here are the 3 top tools in Edward’s current martech stack:

#1: Supermetrics Supermetrics picks up all the marketing data you need and brings it to your favorite reporting, analytics, or storage platform — whether that’s a spreadsheet, a data visualization tool, or a marketing data warehouse.

#2: Exponea From customer data to marketing magic Exponea infuses the customer experience with limitless relevance, personalization, and value — and we do it crazy-fast. Exponea in Action.

#3: SEMrush SEMrush offers solutions for SEO, PPC, content, social media and competitive research. Trusted by over 6000000 marketers worldwide.

Full transcript:

David Bain: I'm joined today by a Helsinki-based growth marketer who specializes in scaling up B2Bs and SaaS marketing. He's host of the Growth Hub podcast and marketing director at Supermetrics. Welcome to MarTech Stacked, Edward Ford.

Edward Ford: David, thanks for having me, pleasure to be here.

David Bain: Great to have you on. And of course you can find Edward over at So Edward, explain what Supermetrics does and how it works with other marketing technology.

Edward Ford: Sure. So briefly, I guess at the end of the day, Supermetrics is really about helping marketers and marketing teams build and grow their businesses, using the data that is available to them. Of course, there's a huge amount of marketing technology products out there. I think you'll know more than most people.

Edward Ford: And we have actually over half a million people using our products, including marketers primarily, but also data scientists and data engineers who use Supermetrics to basically move data from popular marketing platforms, such as Facebook, Facebook ads, Instagram, Google ads, and HubSpot to destinations like Google sheets, Google Data Studio, Excel, various BI tools and data warehouses like BigQuery, for example. So it's really about helping marketers move data from A to B, combine data from all their siloed marketing platforms. And we integrate with around 50 to 60 different marketing platforms. So those are obviously the most popular ones.

Edward Ford: And our focus is on building integrations that go really deep so that you can pull pretty much whatever metric or dimension is available through the API. We promise that with Supermetrics, you'll be able to pull that. And the products are pretty simple to use. I think if you know how to use those destination products like spreadsheets or dashboarding tools, then you pretty much know how to use Supermetrics. It's just a case of having an add-on that will then pull data from whichever platform you want.

Edward Ford: And we have over 14,000 customers in over 120 countries. And the interesting data point is that about 10% of all global ad spend is reported through our products. So an important customer segment for us is performance marketers, PPC marketers, who are working with paid budgets. So that is, in a nutshell, what we do at Supermetrics and how we integrate and work with other MarTech products.

David Bain: Okay, great. And in terms of who you tend to work with or who Supermetrics tends to work with within organizations, is the job title more Head of Data an Insights-type person with a marketer just viewing the data rather than actually setting things up?

Edward Ford: Oh, that's a super good question and something we've been talking about a lot and that has changed now more recently. So I think if you'd asked this two years ago, or when Supermetrics got started, it was very much targeting the marketer who's on the front lines doing a lot of the dirty work. So marketing managers, PPC marketing manager, digital marketer, those kinds of people. And they remain a super important customer segment for us and our original products were self-served. So it's very easy to get started with Supermetrics and the barrier for entry was really low.

Edward Ford: But then now with our more advanced products, so I mentioned you could bring your marketing data into a marketing data warehouse like Google BigQuery, so that product and our API as well, it's a little more complicated, typically requires a bit of SQL knowledge as well. And there, we're seeing a lot more interest from Head of Data and Insights or Head pf Analytics or Head of Data Engineering. So it's often marketing analytics and data teams working together.

Edward Ford: So you have marketers who need to find insights from their data. You have data engineers who will actually build the infrastructure. And then you have the analysts who are in between who are working with marketers and trying to provide the answers that they have but then also working with data teams and engineering teams to make sure that the infrastructures are okay and the products meet certain security guidelines and so forth.

Edward Ford: So it is changing and has changed over time. And now we're definitely speaking more to the insights, analysts, data scientists and data engineers as key customer segments for us.

David Bain: Yeah. I would have thought that would be the case because in the past, I've worked for small startups where I've been the only marketer. But I've also worked in larger organizations where there's been hundreds of marketers and different teams of data specialists. I would imagine if certainly that is a section of your core clients then you're going to have a different person to sell to compared with the person that actually sets up the use of Supermetrics to the person that actually uses the products on an ongoing basis. And that must have particular challenges.

Edward Ford: Yeah. That's right. I think many marketers face this challenge as well when you have different buyers versus users. And then you have stakeholders who are decision-makers or gatekeepers and then as well-

David Bain: So do you-

Edward Ford: Yeah, go ahead.

David Bain: Sorry, do you market to the marketer in the organizations or do you market to the decision maker?

Edward Ford: A bit of both. So with our enterprise products, we need to reach all those different people. So often, we find that particularly in bigger organizations, it needs to be on the CMOs agenda, the understanding of the importance of data and analytics and having good foundations in place, making sure your data is available and that you can use the data in an effective way because your competition will most certainly be doing that. And so they often trigger or initiate the need in larger companies here what this example is about.

Edward Ford: And then we also need to reach analysts because, of course, if they're getting requests from marketing to provide insights and they need to then obviously gather all their marketing data in the most efficient and effective way. So we need to speak to that audience. So I think those would be sort of two key audiences that we're trying to reach.

Edward Ford: And then I think during the sales process, it's more about helping the teams who will build that infrastructure. So this is often when data engineers come into the picture that we can answer their questions, anything regarding security that they might have, we can answer.

Edward Ford: So mapping out that journey is a bit tricky and compared to Supermetrics' core products, which I mentioned, Supermetrics for Excel or Google sheets or Data Studio, it's almost plug and play. It's a self-serve funnel and Supermetrics actually didn't have a single sales person until we were around 5 million in ARR. And now we are building up a sales team and with bigger enterprise deals and our more complex products. So our data warehousing products, they go through with the sales team.

Edward Ford: So for us in marketing, we've also had to shift internally to set up not just the self-serve funnel, but also the sales assisted funnel, which changes internal processes. It changes different demand gen tactics, channels that we focus on requiring greater, closer relationship with sales. It's sales enablement, internal product marketing, not just external product marketing. So yeah, it's definitely challenging, but it's super fun and keeps us busy for sure during the days.

David Bain: I'm sure. So in our conversation today, we're not just looking into Supermetrics, we're looking into marketing technology, your use of marketing technology within Supermetrics as well. So starting off with number three, what are your top three tools in your current MarTech stack and why?

Edward Ford: Yeah, so by top I'm looking at most used, I would say. So I'm thinking about it that way, as well as of course the most important, so in reverse order. And, of course, myself working in the marketing team and we're doing a lot of demand gen and content marketing is a big, big, big tactic for us and a big play for us.

Edward Ford: So SEMrush, I would say is number three. So, of course, we use that for a lot of keyword research, identifying different opportunities in terms of topics we can write about. We do do a lot of customer research and I think marketing to marketers and being involved in MarTech ourselves is always fun. And we know the audience quite well, so to speak. So we do do a lot of customer research and have a lot of ideas in terms of things we can create. But of course, SEMrush is super helpful there. It can help us track different projects we have.

Edward Ford: And I used to use that quite a bit, but now when we hired our first full-time dedicated content marketer, she has jumped in and taken over that. So another important thing to understand in terms of why SEMrush is important is that for us, we are really building out a search first content strategy. So we are looking at opportunities where people are searching for high intent search terms where our products will actually provide a solution. So really niche terms like it could be moving Taboola ad data to Data Studio or moving Outbrain data into a spreadsheet. So our product will actually provide the perfect solution for people who are searching for things like that. So that is definitely very important to us.

Edward Ford: Number two is a product that I'm not sure everyone would be familiar with. It's a bit of a niche marketing automation slash customer data platform called Exponea. I believe it's based out of Slovakia if I'm not incorrect. And that is sort of the engine, I would say, of a lot of what we do. It's at the heart of our MarTech stack. And that is a pretty powerful customer data platform. So all our customer contacts are there in Exponea, all our product onboarding is run through Exponea, so when people start a new trial for any of our products.

Edward Ford: Our email automation is done through there. If we're doing more top of funnel offers like signing up for a webinar, then we need to sync it through Exponea. And the cool thing with that is that it also syncs with the product so that we can get product-based indicators. So if we want to look at people who have run a query for a niche connector, say something like Taboola or Outbrain, then we could find that in Exponea and send out some targeted messaging. If we want to look at people who run a query on a certain product in a certain timeframe, we can find that. So it's a super powerful tool. You can get a lot of granularity.

Edward Ford: But the flip side of it is that it's quite complex and a little tricky to use if you've never used it before. So I grew up on HubSpot and, of course, HubSpot, I think many marketers love it. It's a dream to use, it's super easy. And it has a lot of power available to you. Exponea definitely has, I always say even more power, but it's quite complex and you almost need to have an engineer-like mentality to figure things out.

Edward Ford: And the other thing is that it doesn't integrate with as many tools as I would like. So it can be a bit challenging. So an example would be with webinars. So we've started doing a few more webinars. I think like many other companies started in the spring. And if we have a signup page for a webinar on our website and someone would sign up, fill in the form, then they would be added to Exponea and not GoTo webinar, which is what we're using for our webinars.

Edward Ford: So what you need to do is there is no integration between Exponea and GoTo webinar. So you have to manually export a list of people who signed up, move them into GoTo webinar and then they will get notifications and so forth from there. So that means if we have a webinar next week, like we do when we're recording this, it's about every couple of days taking out all the names, manually exporting them into GoTo webinar and then sending them the sort of info in GoTo webinar.

David Bain: So it certainly sounds like Exponea is important for you, but you've got a bit of a love hate relationship with it.

Edward Ford: Yeah, I think that's a very good way of saying it. I think especially for our core onboarding and everything regarding like free trials and stuff, it's super, super good. And our growth team are definitely the ones who are the power users of that. And we're often asking them for tips and advice and help. But then there are a few things that could be better, but I think that's always the way with MarTech that you can never get everything perfect. And with so many different tools and technologies, there's often a bit of stitching things together needed.

David Bain: Talking about stitching things together, have you tried the Zapier integration to actually taking signups to ... I can't remember if you're getting people to sign up through GoTo meeting or you're getting people to sign up through Exponea for your webinars. Which software are you using to actually get people to sign up to begin with?

Edward Ford: Yeah. So we have looked into Zapier. We'll take another look actually, now that you bring it up, to see if there is a zap between Exponea and GoTo webinar. I seem to remember when we first looked, it was not so common, but that might've changed actually.

David Bain: You could probably do something in between like a Google sheet at least to get people, signed up, going to a Google sheet and then taking that information to Exponea and to GoTo webinar, whichever way around you're doing it.

Edward Ford: Yeah. I think there's probably several ways you can do it. I guess we just need to figure out the most efficient shortcut, but at this stage we haven't...

David Bain: Exactly, it's still not an ideal situation, but it's better than doing it manually, I would imagine.

Edward Ford: Yeah, that's probably true.

David Bain: And you mentioned SEMrush as well as being the third, most important tool at the beginning. And you also talked about content marketing there. Now, SEMrush have changed, sorry I say SEMrush rather than SEM rush!

Edward Ford: Yeah, true, there seems to be two groups. There is the SEMrush and the sem rush group. So we need to check with the team in St. Petersburg. They are just up the road from us in Helsinki.

David Bain: Okay. That's right. Wow. I've done some work for SEMrush in the past, and I've had several conversations with people in SEMrush. And to be honest with you, they pronounce it differently as well, just depending on I think what you feel like at the time. So don't think there's any ...

Edward Ford: Yeah, I would find SEMrush is a bit easier. Takes less effort.

David Bain: Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. Maybe I should start using less effort. The question I was going to ask you in relation to that was you mentioned content marketing quite a bit in your description of why that particular tool was useful to you. I know that SEMrush have changed or have improved and added to their platform quite a bit over the last couple of years to include things like paid search data and social media insights as well. Are you just using it for content marketing and to power your SEO at the moment?

Edward Ford: Primarily. That's our main use case for SEMrush at this stage. So I know they have quite a few other things as well, but I would say at least with how we use it, it's primarily driven as part of our content marketing efforts.

David Bain: Okay. Okay, great. And in terms of your selection of Exponea, were you involved in the selection of that software or did that exist prior to you starting at Supermetrics?

Edward Ford: Yeah, so that existed before I joined. So I joined at the very beginning of 2019 and I think the decision to take it into use was done in late 2018. So it was a relatively new technology and we were still in the process of being integrated when I started. I think it was chosen, of course, because it is super powerful and integrates with the product and for a SaaS company like us, there was a lot of benefits there. And I think the other factor is that our Head of Data used to work at Exponea. So he knew the tool very well and obviously knew the founders and was like a core member of the team before he joined Supermetrics. So I'm pretty sure that had some influence as well.

David Bain: The only thing I'd say about Exponea is to me, it looks like a tool that's primarily targeted at online retail. It talks about e-commerce, but the brands that they showcase on their homepage includes River Island, Arcadia, DFS, Sofology. Traditional brands that are now trying make a success of it online. Is that not a fair summary of what Exponea is largely targeting?

Edward Ford: I'm not actually sure about that. It could be. And I guess SaaS is essentially e-commerce at the end of the day, at least if you're running self-serve SaaS, like Supermetrics is and the majority of our revenue comes through the self-serve funnel. So yeah, I think that would probably make sense for them.

David Bain: Okay, great. Okay. Well, we've got SEMrush as your tool number three, we've got Exponea as your tool number two. What is your tool number one?

Edward Ford: Yeah, I was thinking a bit about this, and I think I could add a caveat to Exponea that tied to that would be Salesforce. Our sales team use that very heavily. And now with the sales assisted funnel, that's super important. And a lot of work has gone into integrating Exponea with Salesforce during the first half of this year.

Edward Ford: Now I might be biased here, but I think definitely one of our top tools would be Supermetrics itself. So we're power users of our own tool. We drink our own champagne or eat our own dog food, depending on which metaphor you like more. And I think, of course, at the end of the day, it's really about making sure we're able to use the data that we have available as best we can.

Edward Ford: Reporting and analytics is super important on when we're growing so quickly with a pretty high volume funnel. A lot of people coming in, we generate around 10,000 free trials every month. So it's good for us to understand how we're performing and we use our different products in many different ways.

Edward Ford: So for example, in the content team, we're using it to pull data from Google analytics into spreadsheets and looking at blog performance. Dimitri, Who is running our paid marketing, he uses it a lot to look at the performance of different campaigns on all our different channels and across different channels. And then our growth team are also doing some pretty advanced stuff with it in BigQuery. So spinning up all that data into BigQuery and building all these different reports for us in marketing for the management team, for the board to dig deeper and try and answer some really specific questions.

Edward Ford: So that's very important to us. So I think those are probably the three most important tools that we're using. And I think the three that we're probably using most actively, particularly Exponea and Supermetrics for sure on a daily, if not hourly basis.

David Bain: Great. Okay. I'd like to dive into Supermetrics a little bit more because you mentioned things like you're looking at your blog performance, you're looking at your PPC performance as well. So I'd like to dive into the specific KPIs that you're looking at because I think one of the challenges with all the data that's available to marketers nowadays is actually to identify the specific metrics that are most important to be keeping an eye on on a regular basis.

David Bain: I'd like to just understand the metrics that are most important for you in different areas of your business, but just before we get there, you also touched on Salesforce as well. And a couple of conversations I've had with other people haven't been that positive about Salesforce because of the amount of time that it's taken different organizations to set things up and get things up and running.

David Bain: But at the sound of it, it's a fairly enterprise level tool and if you have a few people in-house that really embrace it and work with it and personalize the use of it, then you can probably really get full advantage of that. Do you have only positive things to say about your use of Salesforce?

Edward Ford: I think for the most part, our sales team would. I know that people in our sales team have used Salesforce before and obviously know it quite well. I think it's quite interesting. Maybe it's part of the Salesforce strategy to make it such a big effort to get everything set up that you then don't want to change and switch to something else because the pain would be too much. But yeah, I don't really use Salesforce too actively not being in the sales team, so I can't necessarily speak to that. But I think for the most part, I hear positive things at least within Supermetrics and I know it's pretty powerful.

David Bain: Okay, great. Okay. Well, back to Supermetrics. let's have a little talk about all these metrics because I think that one of the reasons that a marketer would want to use Supermetrics is to dive into data and know very, very quickly whether a particular campaign or I guess traffic referral source is worthwhile spending more time on in the future. So what kind of KPIs do you tend to zero in on?

Edward Ford: Yeah, and I think that's a super good question. And it ties back to the fact that there's so much data out there that it's not about just getting all your data and looking at it and having this huge complex spreadsheet or over the top dashboard. But the most important thing is trying to figure out, okay, what is actually important for me or for us as a marketing team or for me as an individual contributor? And then figuring that out because you can just be blinded or overwhelmed by data.

Edward Ford: And you also need to understand why you look at data. It's about improving and understanding what's working. So we have things on a sort of team level and then on an individual level. So for us as a marketing team, we're really zeroed in on a couple of North stars. So the first is trials.

Edward Ford: We know that trials correlates to revenue, and we also understand roughly how many trials we're generating for our different products. And we, of course, want to monitor that over time. So that would be the first.

Edward Ford: And then ARR, so annual recurring revenue, is the other thing. I think that's what it's about at the end of the day. No matter what you do in marketing or what your specialization is, it's all about contributing to that bottom line. And we have our self serve funnel and we have our sales assisted funnels. So obviously, looking at a revenue generated directly through the self serve funnel, since that's pretty much marketing plus growth plus product plus customer success.

Edward Ford: And then we have our sales assisted funnel where people have the chance to actually speak with someone in our sales team and discuss about different options. And particularly with our more complex products, then that can't just happen over a credit card transaction on the internet. So looking at that as well and making sure our sales teams have enough opportunities to work. So those are some things we look at.

Edward Ford: And then on a more granular level, it's more about the individual. So I mentioned someone like Dimitri, he's going to be looking at very specific numbers for Facebook ads, campaigns, LinkedIn ads, campaigns, Google adverts, and so forth, looking at CPAs, ROIs, and so forth. And they'll share things with us, but it's more for his own personal use in his role as a performance marketer.

Edward Ford: And then my colleague Pinia who is heading up our content marketing, then she's going to be looking at very different KPIs which wouldn't necessarily be of huge interest to others. But for her, it's super important to look at how we're doing in terms of traffic to the blog in particular through organic because that's a big play for us. And a lot of our efforts go into organic traffic acquisition.

Edward Ford: And then in addition to that, looking at how many trials we're generating through the blog so that we can understand the contribution content is having. And then another thing we're speaking about on more of a team level going forward is brand awareness and figuring out different ways how we can measure that. So that is something where we're picking up as a key focus area for Q3, because of course that is super important. It's a bit more hard to quantify, but I think definitely important when you want to grow a big business that you need to have a pretty strong brand and keeping track of that is important. So we're trying to figure that out right now.

David Bain: Do you know how long your average purchase funnel tends to be? Because obviously, if someone discovers you through organic, through your blog perhaps, it may be several months, I guess, until they've actually decided to make that purchase. So, is it fairly long? And if so, do you manage to actually track people during that time?

Edward Ford: Yeah, we can see how long it takes people to purchase because we can sort of see the first touch. And then from when they start a trial as the sort of mid touch to then when does the purchase take place? And I think with our self serve products, it's actually quite a short sale cycle, especially when you compare it to our enterprise products that go through the sales assisted funnel. So you're sort of looking at weeks for the shorter sales cycle, but then for the sales assisted deal, some might take much, much longer for our enterprise products. It's going to be looking at months, but even our sales team can close deals pretty quickly as well.

David Bain: I'm glad you're looking at brand as well. I think that a lot of digital marketers tend to focus on the channels that are most likely to result in an immediate sign up to begin with. But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only channel that they should be focusing in on. And I had a great conversation with Louis Grenier from Hotjar and he was saying that people convert very quickly in a day or so. But he was saying it's essentially impossible to measure the true impact of every single medium because people hear of Hotjar through perhaps a podcast interview or through some other source that's just impossible to track. And they do do a lot of brand work as well. So, are you actually going to be putting more marketing budget behind activities that you can't measure over the coming year?

Edward Ford: I I think things you can measure, but I think it's hard to quantify that. So I think we're definitely thinking a lot more about brand and have done so during the first half of this year. We did a big website overhaul and I think one of the good things about that project is that it really helped us rethink like, okay, who are we, what do we stand for? And how do we want people to talk about us?

Edward Ford: And there's a few other things we're going to be doing this year and beyond I think that will be sort of more brand marketing rather than specific demand gen, channel specific, tactical stuff. Of course, we'll be doing that as well. But I think the point Louis had is spot on. And I think that an example could be if people are talking about Supermetrics and referring us to colleagues or peers in marketing and then they might do a quick search and a quick checkout to try out the product and you don't necessarily see that discussion reported on on your report.

Edward Ford: So I think for us, it's more about understanding that brand can help us in all the marketing we do. If you have a strong brand and if we're performing quite well there, I think you're most likely going to see an uplift across all your marketing channels and all your marketing efforts. So it's definitely an investment in the longterm that I think supports your day-to-day tactics and your other marketing channels. So yeah, I think I'm fully with Louis on that. And I think most things Louis says, I'm happy to agree with because I'm a huge fan of him.

David Bain: Well, let's dive into your use of MarTech again and ask you, as your business grows, what's an example of a process that you currently do manually that you may wish to automate using marketing technology in the future?

Edward Ford: Yeah, well, I think one we spoke about is webinar signup. So we're trying to figure that out maybe after this call with the team. But I think following on from the brand discussion, one thing that we are looking at and are going to start is our own podcast soon. So you mentioned earlier that I've been running a podcast in the past. So I know a few things about that already and we're going to start one at Supermetrics.

Edward Ford: And I think podcasting is quite an interesting space when it comes to MarTech, because I think more brands, more marketers, both on the B2C and B2B side are getting into podcasts. And I think we're at now with podcasts where we were with blogs maybe 10, 15 years ago. And so there's still a lot of opportunities and I think it's more about going niche and really finding, carving out your corner within the podcasting space.

Edward Ford: But the technology is quite fragmented. So we are basically going to be looking at Hangouts or Zoom for recording, then something like GarageBand or something similar for editing and stitching things together. Most probably hosting on Anchor, using something like Rev for transcribing the audio. So it's, again, patching things together. And then what we're thinking is can we somehow automate a lot of that? There's a lot of manual things involved and one thing I discovered last week is a product called Descript, which is And I think it's from Andrew Mason, the guy behind Groupon, which looks like a pretty impressive all in one podcasting SaaS solution.

Edward Ford: So all those things from recording, editing, hosting, analytics, transcribing, a lot of other things, it seems that they can take care of that. So I think a lot of manual work could be saved by that. So let's see. We're going to test things out with the basic setup. And then if it's something that works for us, we might look to double down and invest more on specific technologies. And I guess yourself, David, know a bit about podcast technologies.

David Bain: I'd like to think so, yes. There's been a big pickup, certainly in the popularity of podcasting recently. I started my first podcast in 2006, actually. So before the dinosaurs.

Edward Ford: Wow, OG.

David Bain: And that was shortly after podcasting became available on iTunes. So that's what really enabled the average listener to be able to subscribe to a podcast. It was still very, very difficult to do so. You had to have an iPod and plug that into your computer and then the content would sync across from your computer to your iPod. And that's the way you'd listen to podcasts back then. It was really the advent of the smartphone and maybe from about 2012 onwards, when your Android was more in use and more progressive iPhones started to launch and you could get podcasts directly in your phone that podcasting started to pick up.

David Bain: But talking about figures, blogging passed a million blogs, I think, roughly in the year 2004, 2005 or so, which was about the year that podcasting was really being born. Podcasts, this year, in April of this year, surpassed one million podcasts. So we're only at the stage now, as you exactly pointed out, that blogging was about 15 years ago or so.

David Bain: However, it's now increasing at about 250,000 podcasts per month. So fairly rapidly at the moment. But also, as you pointed out, there's a lot of technology that goes into producing a decent podcast. You need to think about your audio quality, your guests' audio quality, stitching everything together, editing everything, getting everything transcribed, hopefully, as well and doing it in a manner that is perfect and doesn't just rely on automation as well. So to do it well, it takes a lot of effort. So I'm glad you've pointed that out as well.

David Bain: So we've talked a lot about the current MarTech that you use, an area perhaps that you could currently augment your current activities by maybe improving your use of MarTech. But what about the future or what about marketing technology in general? Is there another challenge that you're facing at the moment or an opportunity that you see to create a new piece of marketing technology that doesn't even exist yet, but you would love to see created?

Edward Ford: Good question. And I think it follows on nicely from what we were just speaking about regarding podcasts, because I really feel that podcasts could be very big in marketing going forward. And one part of that puzzle that I don't think anyone's really solved yet is the podcast analytics problem. You often have data that is siloed on different platforms and depending where you host depends on what sort of analytics you have available. So maybe Descript will solve that.

Edward Ford: Again, I'm not sure. I haven't really dug into it too much. Or maybe it's something we could build out at Supermetrics by having integrations with different podcasting platforms so that no matter what you could then pull data from different podcast players, see how your podcasts are performing on Apple podcasts versus Google versus Spotify, et cetera. Whether that's available through APIs, I'm not sure, but just thinking out loud. But I think in general, I would love to see a better solution when it comes to podcasting analytics.

Edward Ford: And I think if you're particularly using advertising in your podcasts and selling maybe advertising space, that's very important to know, where do you get drop-off points and so forth. But even for podcast hosts to understand what kind of topics work well, which ones don't and so forth, where do people drop off would be super interesting, comparing performance across different audiences, different locations, different players. So for me, I would like to see someone solve the podcasting analytics problem.

David Bain: Great. Okay. Well, I won't bite any further in terms of the podcast discussion otherwise we'll be here all day.

Edward Ford: Yeah. Two podcasters talking about podcasting on a podcast.

David Bain: Exactly. Yes. It's going to get strange. Edward, you've shared a lot of great thoughts in our conversation today about MarTech in general. A lot of, I think, key insights for marketers as well. Would you say that there's one thought that you've shared that you'd like to leave the listener with as a key takeaway with from today's discussion.

Edward Ford: Yeah. I'm not sure if we've spoken about it yet, but I think one thing that I always like to reinforce when talking about marketing technology or technology in general is that it should always follow strategy. So a lot of people love to ask me," Hey, what are your top marketing tools? Or what does your MarTech stack look like?" And I often have these conversations without the context of our strategy.

Edward Ford: And so I think you must always think strategy first with marketing. So understanding who you're trying to target, what are you trying to communicate, what messaging and how are you best going to reach them? And then your marketing technology stack should really just help you do that. And it should just make your life a bit easier, basically. So it's always strategy first, tools, technology, tactics, second. And I think that's always good to keep in mind when talking about marketing technology.

David Bain: Absolutely. I think that's a great thought to leave everyone with so thank you so much. Yeah, thanks so much for your time and your tips. What's the best way for the listener to find out more about you and what you do?

Edward Ford: So the best place to connect and find out more would be LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there and always open to connecting with fellow marketers. So definitely drop me a connection request. Any questions you can drop me a message there, Twitter as well. You can follow me @NordicEdward. So I think those are probably the best two places to get in touch with me. And, of course, if you want to check out Supermetrics, then you can check that out at

David Bain: Wonderful stuff, thanks again.

Edward Ford: Perfect. Thank you so much, David. This was a lot of fun.

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