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Martech Stacked Episode 13: Why is Hubspot CRM the Number 1 Martech Tool for Global App Testing? - Nick Roberts

Blog Post Author – David
20th August 2020

I’m joined today by a man who’s the Marketing Director for a company that provides crowdtesting quality assurance for the likes of Facebook, Canva and Microsoft. He’s an experienced B2B SaaS marketer and a demand generation expert - welcome to Martech Stacked, Nick Roberts. (You can find Nick over at

Listen to Martech Stacked on Apple, Google Podcasts or Spotify.

Here are the 3 top tools in Nick’s current martech stack:

#1: Hubspot CRM Free CRM for Small to Enterprise Businesses

#2: Zapier Zapier moves info between your web apps automatically, so you can focus on your most important work.

#3: Databox Business Analytics Platform & KPI Dashboards

Full transcript:

David Bain: I'm joined today by a man who's the Marketing Director for a company that provides crowd testing quality assurance for the likes of Facebook, Canva, and Microsoft. He's an experienced B2B SaaS marketer and a demand generation expert. Welcome to Martech Stacked, Nick Roberts.

Nick Roberts: Thanks, David. Appreciate it. That was a great intro, I like the way you described me, I'll take that.

David Bain: Well, thank you very much. Hopefully it doesn't taper down from here and we can keep it on a decent level.

Nick Roberts: It's all right.

David Bain: Absolutely. Yeah. So great to have you Nick. You can of course find you over So can you please explain what Global App Testing does and how you use marketing technology to make it better?

Nick Roberts: Yeah, definitely I'd love to. I mean, in a nutshell you hit the nail on the head but we are a remote on-demand QA testing company. And we do that through the power of a crowd of 40,000 plus testers around the world. So that means companies, like you mentioned, Facebook can test the latest version of their app in Brazil without sending a team to Brazil or setting up a team in Brazil. And we basically use a blend of humans and machines to allow companies to release high quality software at speed and scale. Traditionally QA has been something that has been like relegated to the end of the process when companies make software. And we shift that now much earlier in the process. It's much cheaper and more effective to find a bug earlier in the process than it is when it's already out in the wild.

Nick Roberts: I mean that's in a nutshell, what we do. From a marketing technology perspective, it really underpins everything we do from an acquisition perspective. Almost all the acquisition we do is powered in some part through our MarTech Stack. And I like to think of it as the better our acquisition funnels, the better customers we get on our platform. If we get better customers on our platform, then that means that we can get better usage in our product itself. And then if we get better usage, then we can obviously build a better product through customer feedback. So it's really like a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. I make it sound like it's all interconnected really neatly and tightly, but I'd be lying if I said that does, but really what it does is it makes us really good at acquiring customers.

David Bain: I'm sure it's blended better than it was last year, but perhaps next year it'll be blended even better.

Nick Roberts: I hope so.

David Bain: It's an ever improving journey really for all of us. And then at one thing that you said as part of your introduction there was, it's a blend of humans and machines that power your service there. So is it more machines now than it used to be in? Are you moving towards just machines or will there always be humans as an essential part of what you do?

Nick Roberts: I like to think of it like the self driving car, right? If someone had just said, "Hey, we've got a self driving car. Everything's got to change now, everyone's got to be in a self driving car." Our streets aren't ready for it, pedestrians aren't ready for it. The technology would be kind of strange people wouldn't know how to use it, et cetera. And so it's kind of that same thought process with autonomous testing as we call it. So as you continue machines can do only so much, right? And it only takes the input from somebody else and tells it what to do. From the human perspective, what the humans do and what our testers do really is find the edge case really meet the real stuff that machines can't test and can't find. A great example of that is we're working with a large company and they were struggling in SouthEast Asia.

Nick Roberts: In Indonesia, specifically, they were having real big troubles with sign ups and they couldn't figure out what was going on. And they asked us to run some tests in Indonesia. All of their automated tests were fine, no problems there and so they couldn't figure out what the problem was. And ultimately it boiled down to the fact that on the signup page, it was asking for the user's first name and their last name. Well, in Indonesia, a large percentage of the population just don't have a surname. They don't have a last name. So the sign up and it's a required field. So if it's a required field and you can't sign up for it, you automation test says, "Yeah, it passed. The fields are there. Great." But you can't program for those kinds of nuances. And that's what the human element of it is. I don't think the human element will ever go away. At least not until we're full on autonomous AI overlords or take over. Which hopefully is a long time way.

David Bain: I'm sure the human role will change a bit, but always stay an important part of it. And I'm sure organizations that just rely on automation until the machines take over will probably be a little bit lesser in terms of their overall success than I guess, organizations that incorporate the human instinct as well.

Nick Roberts: Definitely. Yeah. I think that the companies don't understand, you can use it as a driver of growth. A high quality product. I think they're the ones that really do get it and really do achieve the most success, at least from what we see.

David Bain: Let's dive into your marketing technology. Starting off with number three. What are your top three tools in your current MarTech Stack and why?

Nick Roberts: Right. So I think from me, my third most important piece is a platform called Databox. And Databox it does a couple of different things for us. Databox is like our visual reporting representation layer and it crosses more than just marketing. I mean, initially it was set up by marketing because marketing always gets the cool tools and that kind of stuff, but essentially Databox allows us to take lots of different data from different places and present it in a nice visual way that is engaging for people.

Nick Roberts: People would love to see a good graph, a good chart, a good dashboard. And what Databox has allowed us to do is really democratize access to what's going on in the business. So we have our OKRs in Databox they're publicly available to anyone in the company and they're generally updated in real time. So as long as you're piping in real time data to those data boards and data boxes, you get insight into those specific areas. And that's really cool because now on Mondays our senior leadership team automatically has where we are performance wise, where we are trending and where we might end the quarter regularly automagically as I like to call it.

David Bain: So it's according to Google.

Nick Roberts: Yeah.

David Bain: Or at least the SERP result, it's a Business Analytics Platform and KPI Dashboards. It certainly looks like a great service there. What competing service would you say is most similar to this? Maybe something like

Nick Roberts: Kind of so you can pipe data from Segment in there. So I would say more along the lines of Geckoboard would be an example, or even some of the functionality within Google Data Studio will provide that. What's really helpful I think is that you can get other people in the organization creating data boards and dashboards through simple connections and it doesn't require someone to have... We have Tableau in your organization which is great but it doesn't require lengthy training through Tableau and understanding all the different tables and all those things. You can just literally create custom metrics and put them in there. And then around the office, we've got TVs, back when people used to be in the office of course. We have TVs and so you can display those wonderfully and they're just really nicely formatted as well. So walking around the office, you get a good sense of what's happening at all times.

David Bain: So I'm certainly familiar with Geckoboard as well. And I've seen them around different offices in London when I was allowed in! So, so what about Databox makes it better for you than Geckoboard because it appears it has quite a bit of connectivity with lots of different platforms. Does it have more connectivity compared with Geckoboard?

Nick Roberts: Yeah, that's a great question. I've used both and I think the big win for me on Databox was the ease of use and the ease of being able to schedule regular reporting. And by ease of use, I mean, democratize it across the company so that if someone in our customer support function wanted to create a dashboard for instance, they can easily do that. And they kind of those connect those simply. And I mean I just think it's those things that make it the absolute best way to go. That it's formatted nicely for TVs as well. Like I mentioned, which at the time it was a big deal. And the integrations work with our other stacks that we have as well.

David Bain: Interesting. Okay. So I'll be interested to see if Databox, Geckoboard and other similar services actually adjust their unique proposition or core selling points, taking it away from TV dashboards to something else that works online. Yeah,

Nick Roberts: It's true. I think you do see that already with the application of well, this is a business intelligence type of platform, right? It's like, Oh, well, that's different than like a dashboard type program.

David Bain: Okay. So that's Databox, tool number three for you. What is tool number two?

Nick Roberts: Tool number two is another multipurpose tool, which I use regularly and once people understood the application of it then became a company wide thing. Well, that's Zapier, Zapier, depending on how you pronounce it. For me, Zapier is the Swiss army knife of pretty much anything. And the reason that I chose that as my second most important piece is because you can essentially take whatever data you have, wherever you have it currently, and you can transform it and put it where you need it. And that sounds all great, okay whatever. But actually it's super powerful because you were able to analyze things you might not be able to analyze in your current system. You can make it do things to keep people informed and updated, and it expands the functionality of all the other tools that you have. Even with Databox, number three, some of the data that comes into Databox is actually piped in through Zapier, just because there's no native integration or the integration doesn't go in the way I like it.

David Bain: Okay. I always find that it tends to be Zapier in the UK and Zapier in the US but you're of course originally from the UK-

Nick Roberts: I am which confuses everybody.

David Bain: But having spent some time in the US as well.

Nick Roberts: Yeah, it's a mass confusion. I pronounce all kinds of words wrong. People are just blown away. They don't know where I'm from.

David Bain: It's just different. So Zapier is one of these tools that seem to have set an industry standard in terms of what people use. There are other alternatives out there, but they certainly don't seem as prominent or significant and perhaps covering as many different technologies as Zapier does. Do you find that? I mean, I spoke to a gentleman called Charles Dolisy from Plezi for episode number eight of Martech Stacked, and he recommended Zapier as well. And one of the thoughts that I shared with them was what can happen is that people create too many Zaps and it becomes too complicated. And there's a danger I guess everything getting too complicated. Do you maybe once every six months or a year or so review the number of zaps that you have and turn off the ones that aren't as important for you there?

Nick Roberts: Yeah, it's a really good question. There's a thing I've spoken about before with people, which is in tech you've got this concept of technology debt and engineering debt that's to do with software development and there's patches and you do things that are quick fixes to make things work the way you want them to. And I think marketing is the same way we've got marketing debt from what kinds of things in Zapier is great at that, along with your CRM, which we'll talk about as my number one choice for obvious reasons. But the whole concept behind Zapier is that thing. And I'm very conscious that there is a sort of duct tape version of how things connect together. And there are times where you've got to look at what you're connecting where and to evaluate, "Oh, actually this company now has a native integration with these two pieces. So it's actually best to eliminate Zapier entirely."

Nick Roberts: But one thing I think that's really important when you're using Zapier is to have the level of access that allows you to segregate, where the Zaps are and make people accountable for owning those things. So we have to each of the different departments, Global App Testing has their own folder and their own zaps. And there's kind of one key user who's in charge of that. This is relatively new for us. When we moved to this model, I used to be the owner of all of all the Zaps, which is not scalable in any way. And so then you move to a point where people are owners of those things and you can just jump in every now and again turn a few off and see if people's workflows break. And then you soon find out if it's useful or not because people either message you or they don't and it just dies away.

David Bain: What happened to our website? It's disappeared.

Nick Roberts: It's completely gone.

David Bain: That's Databox tool number three, Zapier tool number two, you mentioned CRM and interestingly, many people have mentioned CRMs as their number one tool. So it does seem to be the most important in most organizations. What is your CRM?

Nick Roberts:

So we use HubSpot.

David Bain: Okay.

Nick Roberts: Actually it's a bit kind of a misnomer to say CRM is the most important thing. I think the CRM side of it is the most important for the sales marketing alignment side of things absolutely. But we are all in on HubSpot. So I've been using HubSpot before Global App Testing as well. And I think the flexibility and the functionality of HubSpot is much further ahead than it was maybe six years ago when I was using it, but they're continuously growing it and building it as well, which is huge. And I've used Salesforce in the past as a CRM, not at Global App Testing and the difference between the two I think is absolutely night and day, but in a similar way the marketing technology landscape has changed. If you wanted to build a landing page five years ago, maybe a little bit longer than that you'd need some decent access or decent knowledge HTML, CSS.

Nick Roberts: You probably need to know a little bit about hosting or if you're building in WordPress, but now anyone of my team can create landing pages within HubSpot, within 30 minutes, 40 minutes, a landing page is good to go. There's automations, there's nurture emails, everything's aligned to the company brand. Everything's been tested already. And so I think that what HubSpot has allowed us to do is to accelerate much faster with regards to those kinds of things and cut the amount of time it takes for someone to learn all of our systems because everything's housed in one neat orderly place.

David Bain: Okay. So you introduced HubSpot to begin with as a CRM, and certainly you can just use HubSpot as a CRM, but you also mentioned landing pages, nurture emails as well. So I would assume that means that you use HubSpot for that.

Nick Roberts: Yeah. So with HubSpot, we've got the marketing automation platform, we've got the sales and CRM side of the house as well and I think the only thing we don't use from them as the customer support tool, and I'm sure that they would get us on it at some point if they could. But for now everything we do flows through those two systems. And that means that there's really clear alignment on leads is very clear assignment alignment around who's following up. We can be involved in the process as a marketing team. We can glean insights from what the sales team are doing with people in the CRM as well. And it's all one interface and one reporting system as well, which provides multiple benefits of course, across the org.

David Bain: So do you use HubSpot for your CMS for your main website as well?

Nick Roberts: Yeah.

David Bain: Your main pages and also a blog as well I presume.

Nick Roberts: Yeah, we've got the blog, we've got the full website. When I first joined Global App Testing, we had a separate WordPress site. And the thing about having a separate WordPress site is that you've got to have someone that's maintaining that. And so the time and effort to maintain a WordPress blog and site means that you're diverting resources away from a demand and driving growth. And at an early stage, when I joined that meant taking time away from those efforts to maintain a website. And so you can either invest in that, or you can invest in growth opportunities. And I said, "Look let's really analyze this and put the resource into there, have HubSpot maintain those things for us, SSL maintaining the uptime, maintaining security, those kinds of things. And we can focus instead on just content creation." And that's where I think our biggest win has come from.

David Bain: Okay. So I think there's definitely value in doing that. I think a concern that a few people might have is in areas like SEO, because if you use WordPress, then at least you have access to lots of different plugins and you can really control the way that search engines sees your website. How has your SEO success been since you've just focused in on HubSpot?

Nick Roberts: Yeah. I mean, we have not had any issues with SEO. Our traffic has grown 300% over the last three years, so we're a hundred percent year on year, every year. And part of that is because HubSpot also has great SEO themselves and they use their own platform for that. And so they really understand how important that can be. It wasn't as easy probably in the earlier days, I would say for the CMS side of things, but they know that people, especially if you're selling to marketers and you're providing them with a tool that we're going to care about those kinds of things. And there's actually a surprising amount of depth that you can get into the HubSpot CMS without having to compromise on SEO type things. And I think, what you said about plugins is really interesting because yeah, it is very easy to, "Oh, I'll just quickly download a plugin or just quickly add this, or I'll just quickly add that."

Nick Roberts: And that introduces a whole raft of vulnerabilities and security issues that I'd prefer we not dive into as a company. And it's difficult on the WordPress side to hold to really kind of lock it down from that perspective. Whereas with HubSpot, there's no kind of rogue malicious things like plugins that you can download and you can add on, but we do use an agency for reviews, the agency to redesign and design our site a couple of times now, and this specific HubSpot code that you can build reusable modules that you're dropping and dragging in, and it makes things really, really easy to build out.

David Bain: So I'd like to talk a little bit as well about your own content marketing strategies. So what do you publish on your HubSpot CMS? So how regularly do you publish on your own websites? What kind of content do you publish and what kind of strategy do you follow for your content marketing?

Nick Roberts: That's a great question. So we've got a couple of different things I think that will answer that question. As far as how often do we publish we've always or I've always tried not to say it's definitely this number of posts per week, or it's definitely this amount of time, because I always felt that, I do still feel that it's important that if you don't have anything to say, don't just publish something for the sake of it. And then as far as a strategy goes, I mean, luckily for us, we don't have a dearth of things to publish, but there is decided that they kind of like three bucket areas. I would say that drive the content strategy, there is the standard kind of SEO type content where we're answering a very specific SEO type query that is good for search engine optimization.

Nick Roberts: It's good for back links, is good for people wanting to search for us. And then we divide that out by persona. So we'll look at who our buyers are, who the target audience is, what they might be searching for, and then craft content to those types of personas. But it's decided the more SEO, how to X this, or those kinds of things. Then we also look at the things that our buyers might be interested in reading about from a technology perspective, how we solve specific problems. We've got a great couple of resources in us we sell to tech leaders, heads of engineering, CTOs, those kinds of things. So our CTO and director of engineering is always interested in providing his thoughts around what engineering leaders want to read about.

Nick Roberts: So then we can craft content that really addresses their pain points in their day. And it might not be something that they searched for, but if they're on LinkedIn and they see a post that's talking about engineering leader burnout, for instance, they're like, "Oh yeah, I really struggled with that. I'm going to read this because it's interesting." And it's really hits the nail on the head. And we do that by persona as well. So some of it is for the buyer, some of it is for the influencer as well. And then we have our thought leadership piece. So we wrote a book about two years ago, sorry it was about a year ago. It took us about two years to write. Every book is always, "Oh, we're going to write this in six months."

David Bain: I can relate.

Nick Roberts: Two years later.

David Bain: Yes.

Nick Roberts: And so we have a lot of thought leadership about what the future of QA looks like and what the future of delivering great quality software is. And we interviewed 120 different engineering leaders from companies like Reddit, New York Times, eBay, Etsy, all the big guys that it's like how does QA work and how do you release great products? No agenda other than writing a book really, that was the agenda. And we've got some really great insight we compiled that into a book around called Leading Quality, which became a best seller on Amazon. And what that's enabled us to do is it then provides an ongoing stream of thought leadership content that we can repurpose. We can write about. And again, break that down by persona. So leading quality as a frontline employee in your organization, what does that mean? It's different than what it means to be a CTO and lead quality in the company as well. So we try to tackle it from three different areas and then break it down by persona.

David Bain: Great. Yes. I published a book about six months ago and I interviewed 134 marketing experts on what they thought was the most important thing to think about over the coming year and incorporates within a business. And I did that as a result of doing a live stream and doing an 8-hour Live Stream. So did you incorporate video and audio into the conversations that you had with these people and use that content as well? Or were you just focused on the written word?

Nick Roberts: We were just focused on the written word. Yeah. I think retrospectively, we probably could have recorded video interview type sessions, but I think what we've done since then is invite those people onto our webinars. So we'll have webinars with the people that are featured in the book to talk about various aspects of what they talked about in the book. And so that's been really fun as well. Being able to get those same people back in to do webinars after the fact as well, and then relate it back to the book. But we use the book as a lead source and as a lead generation tool as well. And we just give it away basically. I mean, you can buy it on Amazon as a best seller, but ultimately our sales people use it as part of their pitch as well.

David Bain: It's a wonderful brand authority builder as well. People will remember you because of it. And if they don't intend to use you now, then hopefully they'll remember you in six months time and then come back to you. You Also mentioned webinars there as well. So does that mean that you view content marketing in the future as perhaps being more video-based than text form?

Nick Roberts: I think if you'd asked me that six months ago, I would've said, "Oh. Yeah, most definitely." I think there is a certain amount of webinar fatigue, and there's a certain amount of kind of Zoom fatigue that's hitting right now. I had an email today in bold, in the middle of the email in all caps was this is not a webinar, it's an online digital event here's the Zoom link. And I'm like, "Okay, well it's still a webinar." Or it's still a Zoom call. You can call it by another name, but essentially it's the same thing.

Nick Roberts: So I think that depending on how things play out in the current situation and how much people's tolerance either wanes or gets better depending on the situation. I think will really shift the dynamics for webinars. I think that the people that figure out how to really get into a webinar through the audience engagement will really win the market. Zoom has been by default a winner in this, but not because they've delivered Solomon innovative way of getting people engaged in a call, but just because they were the best at the time. Right? So I think there's-

David Bain: They we're the most reliable I think.

Nick Roberts: Yeah.

David Bain: They were quite a traditional looking platform, although they're not that old a company, I think their video quality is reasonable and their audio quality is only just sufficient, but probably not for recording decent quality webinars quite often as well. And you mentioned webinar fatigue. I think that to a certain degree, when many other businesses, many other marketers come on to a type of communication or a platform then that leads to the quality must go up. If the communications platform is fairly recent and not many marketers are on there, then to a certain degree you can almost publish anything and if the audience is there then-

Nick Roberts: I think LinkedIn video is a great example of that. There was no LinkedIn video suddenly there was LinkedIn video and it was very easy for people to just post a bunch of rubbish and be quite successful off the back of that and now it's very difficult to achieve the same level of success.

David Bain: Completely agree. I've had LinkedIn Live for the last year or so. And when I went live a year ago to six months ago, immediately, I had a few hundred people that watched the live stream, a lot of interaction. And within 24 hours, 2000 people viewing the video. But nowadays I go live and I'm lucky maybe to have 10 people watching live and maybe 500 people watching the video afterwards. And it's not hopefully a reduction in the quality in my part. I think there are so many other people doing it. Yeah.

Nick Roberts: Yeah exactly.

David Bain: It's not necessarily the medium becoming old or people becoming tired of the medium it's differentiating once you produce and ensuring what you produce is more relevant, higher quality for the target consumer compared with other people out there.

Nick Roberts: I think outside webinars video will continue to be an important function. And I think well-produced high quality video always has a role, especially when you look at just purely from the funnel, I think it's very easy when you have a good video and there's a personality there and you see a real human behind a brand, I think people are like, "Oh, okay. That's who I might be engaging with at this point. I get it. I can see that a little bit behind the curtain." So I think there's always a place for high quality video and people demand that it's also different being strictly B2B we're not creating TikToks trying to get people interested in software development testing through TikTok as a medium, for instance. But I think that some of the more traditional video approaches will always have a good way of interacting with the right buyer.

David Bain: I will claw myself back from biting anymore and going down too big a tangent and return to your use of marketing technology and Global App Testing and ask you, as the business grows, what's an example of a process that you currently do manually that you may wish to automate using marketing technology in the future?

Nick Roberts: That's a great question. I think one thing that to me is never as easy as it should be, is working with third party writers or third party contributors. I think having external copywriters the current kind of Google Docs, let's get something in there and let's write a brief, let's have that. And then coming back in adding comments and approvals, what stage is it in who's looking at it next, those back and forths I think need some improvement. I haven't run across a tool that screams at me and says, this is going to make all of that so much easier.

David Bain: Definitely.

Nick Roberts: I'm going to have regularly brief content writers as well. And we have content writers on staff as well, but we regularly brief content writers and then it's like, let's jump on a 30 minute call, and then we'll write a brief and then we'll approve it and invoice. And as there's so much back and forth, there has to be a smoother way without just employing them.

David Bain: Yes. I've used Trello boards quite a bit in the past. And I just feel that maybe it hasn't evolved as much as it could have done in terms of giving different people access to different aspects of the boards and perhaps other integrations as well or other aspects of the tool that could have evolved. One recommendation that Lukasz Zelezny gave me on episode number one, was a tool called ClickUp.

Nick Roberts: ClickUp.

David Bain:

Nick Roberts: Okay.

David Bain: Have you heard of them at all?

Nick Roberts: I have not heard of ClickUp. No.

David Bain: That's worthwhile considering. I'm looking into them at the moment to automate certain things. It looks like being a great platform to build virtual teams and different responsibilities for different members of the team there. So it's something to perhaps look into.

Nick Roberts: That sounds fantastic. I would definitely give that a shot actually.

David Bain: That's great.

Nick Roberts: Not affiliate link.

David Bain: It's not an affiliate link. Okay. And what is something that you have in mind that would be a wonderful piece of marketing technology that perhaps doesn't even exist yet, but you would love to see created?

Nick Roberts: So I think Google is doing some really interesting things with like predictive AI within Google Analytics and taking a look at being able to query your Google Analytics in a way that makes sense from a logical conversational perspective, I would like to see something that takes a holistic view of everything and can give me answers around marketing and predictive things. Something that is evaluating what we've done and is providing some evidence that says, normally when you write a blog, you get X number of traffic and this keywords outside of your normal keyword set that you've got in SEMRush or Ahrefs is one of our SEO tools.

Nick Roberts: And probably because it's not as long as your other articles, adding some science and adding some kind of rationale behind there's a lot of gut decisions. I think that happened like, "I think this article needs to be improved." "Okay.Well, why?" "Well, let's got less traffic." "Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. We need to improve it." "Okay. Well, why?" And there's no that we'll add more words, but I think there's some room there for someone to develop a thing that takes all of your marketing data and turns out some really interesting analysis.

David Bain: There's been a few people so far in the discussions that I've had in the series that have said a similar thing. That they would like more direction in terms of, this is what you need to write about today. It needs to be X number of words long, include X photos, a video, and this should be incorporated within your heading not just go ahead and write it. And that way they'll know definitively the quality, the volume produced should be head and shoulders above what else exists out there for that particular keyword phrase. Tools that you mentioned there, SEMRush, Ahrefs are great tools, but they almost give too much information sometimes and it's difficult to decide what to do.

Nick Roberts: They're also very walled in their analysis based on their tool set. It's very little interior data that you're giving it. It's all quite publicly available data that it's pulling from. So unless you're integrating your existing posts and integrating your existing things, it's very difficult for it to give you anything other than what it can give everyone else. The thing that differentiates, I think a lot of marketers is your own data. And if you've got your own data, then that's something that nobody else has. And the insights that you can produce that I think is where a lot of the gold can come from. Like we evaluate our sales funnel and our marketing funnel using data from HubSpot and Zapier and Databox. And we can see when there's a blockage in the funnel and we can then dive in and evaluate that. But that takes a lot of work. There's a lot of things that have to happen along that front, and it's quite custom. But that's our data and that's what gives us a competitive advantage over somebody else.

David Bain: Well, Nick, you've offered a lot of great advice and thoughts as part of a discussion, this is the kind of discussion that could go on I'm sure for much longer, but let's try and distill it down into one final thought. And I'll ask you, what would you say is the key takeaway for the listener from today's discussion?

Nick Roberts: I think the key takeaways is almost what I was just mentioning now, which is really having a good view over your own data and evaluating how your content marketing efforts, evaluating how your marketing stack all contribute to the end goal. And if you're measured by revenue or the amount of contribution that as a marketer that you're delivering to the organization, and really you should be looking at where people are progressing in your sales funnel, where the blockages are, and then put your efforts on resolving those major blockages in the funnel and marketing automation now compared to three years ago, or the MarTech Stack compared to three years ago, you can do that now relatively easily without needing to learn SQL or anything more complicated than that. So the more data driven that you can get, I think the better results that ultimately you have, because you've got your own data set to play with.

David Bain: Superb stuff. Well, thank you so much for your time and your tips. What's the best way for the listener to find out more about you and what you do?

Nick Roberts: Oh, just connect with me on LinkedIn. So it's just LinkedIn, Nick Roberts. You can search me out there.

David Bain: Wonderful stuff. Thank you again.

Nick Roberts: All right. Thanks, David.

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