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Martech Stacked Episode 3: Introducing the all-in-one online business platform - with Teresa Heath-Wareing

Blog Post Author – David
11th June 2020

Joining me for episode 3 of Martech Stacked is a lady whose aim is to make social media simple. She helps her clients to make sense of all the social media options available to them, better manage their time on social media, and find the right social media tools and tactics for them - Teresa Heath-Wareing from

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Here are the 3 top tools in Teresa’s current martech stack:

#1: Kajabi All-in-one online business platform

#2: Canva Create great graphics easily & share them with your team

#3: Captivate Podcast hosting service

Full transcript:

David Bain: Joining me today is a lady whose aim is to make social media simple. She helps her clients to make sense of all the social media options available to them, better manage their time in social media and find the right social media tools and tactics for them. Welcome Teresa Heath-Wareing.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Thank you for having me, David. It is a pleasure to be here.

David Bain: Great to have you here. Of course you can find Teresa over at So Teresa, explain what your business does and how you use marketing technology to make it better.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, I guess to help explain that question, I should explain I've been doing marketing for a very long time, about 16 years now. Did my degree 16 years ago and what I did in marketing then and what I do now are two very different things. And that is pretty much solely down to the technology that's available to us today that wasn't around when I did my degree.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So what I do today is I help small businesses through an online academy and through a 90 day program basically learn how they can use marketing, how they can use digital marketing and social media to help promote their business but in a way that is not overwhelming or time-consuming or lot of triggers come up when people have to do this stuff and they have to do their marketing. So I try and do it in a really straightforward, nice, easy, simple way. But, ultimately, with the goal to help them grow their businesses.

David Bain: Wonderful. And, technology specifically, how would you say in general you use technology and what areas of your business is technology most important? Is it to try to drive initial inquiries or people to your website? Is it with a view to the flow from people viewing your content to hopefully becoming customers or something else?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Do you know what? It's everything. It's every single step of my entire business is now pretty much 100% reliant on technology. I can't run a single thing. It was funny when the lockdown happened and lots of people had to work from home and they were struggling, I suddenly realized how prepared I was for this without even knowing because everything I had, everything I did, my entire business, from people finding me, from people getting to know me, people watching me online to now doing talks online, I'm a speaker and I used to speak all around the world and now I get to speak to lots of people but through a screen.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So right the way through to how I serve my audience and how I actually make money is entirely through technology and through some of these amazing tools that we've got that we can now use.

David Bain: It's funny actually. That's a common theme so far. I've only recorded a few episodes of the show so far and I have spoken to Lukasz Zelezny, the top SEO and social media consultant, and I've also spoken to Mark Asquith.

David Bain: And both of them are saying, "We've set up our businesses already in a way that actually was ready for this. It's ready because we have our home offices, we're comfortable using technology already and the challenges that people must face that are ducking and diving to try to get everything in place and learn how to produce content and how to come across well online that haven't really done it before must be quite significant."

David Bain: So, obviously, you're saying that you're using technology an awful lot, in just about every area of your business. Maybe dial it back to say five years ago or so. What areas of your business did you focus on first? What were the categories of technology that you tried to implement initially?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So I think initially, when I think right back when I started, it was some real basic stuff which I still use to this day. But it was things like schedulers for social media, that would have been one of the very things I introduced. Having a website, using social media, they were the things that I did back then.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, in all honesty, I don't think I used even a tenth of what I today in terms of different systems for different things. I didn't have my team back then and my team is and has always been virtual. So there are many different ways in which we communicate. And actually it was Katy, my original, my very first team member, who came on board who actually helped me with all this in the sense of almost showing me the light of what was available because at that time, my business is very local, I would do a lot of networking. I would go meet people. That sounds like a crazy prospect right now. You'd go into their businesses and have conversations.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Even to the point where I might have even printed off a proposal to take to someone. Whereas now, that just seems absolutely ludicrous that you would even do those things. So, really, she was quite instrumental that got me knowing that there is this way of working. But it meant we didn't have to sit in the same room as each other, that meant I could do things so much more efficiently and we could keep track of each other way more efficiently.

David Bain: I think the key thing is now that most people who do business are comfortable with going face to camera and jumping on video. If you go back even five years, that wasn't the case at all. I remember starting off a previous podcast Digital Marketing Radio in 2014, I think for the first one and a half years or maybe two years, I didn't do it on video. And it was quite normal just to go on and record an audio podcast.

David Bain: I interviewed people like John Lee Dumas, just audio only. It was completely the normal way to do things. You didn't turn your camera on, it was uncomfortable to turn your camera on. But I guess because it's normal now for most people, then that's more able to replace that face to face relationship. Do you think cameras and video conferencing can actually replace to a certain degree that face to face contact?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Do you know what was really funny is when I brought Katy on, she actually didn't live that far away from me. And she was like, "Right, so we'll have regular Skype," because we used Skype then, not Zoom we're using now. Regular Skype calls. And I was like, "What? You live literally 20 minutes down the road, why wouldn't we meet in person?" And she's like, "No, it doesn't work like that." I'm a virtual assistant, we have calls."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And I remember thinking, "Oh, I don't think I'm going to like this." And I was gobsmacked. I was so surprised that actually, because I am a very people person, I'm very personable, I like to meet people, I'm very touchy feely, I love a hug. And I was really surprised how good that was. How connected you can be on a screen. And for me, although I have to say during the period of where we're all locked in and can't go anywhere, it is exhausting, sometimes, to be on a screen all the time.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: I actually think it is the next best thing. Obviously, I love to meet people in person but seeing someone's face, seeing how they've been, and I always record my podcasts with the screen on even though I don't use the video. I do it because I like to see them and I like to read them and pick up on those social cues and pick up on when they're about to pause or when they're about to say something. So, I actually think it's a great, great alternative to meeting in person.

David Bain: Absolutely. I actually quite like watching shows on YouTube which are essentially podcasts but not officially podcasts if they are published on YouTube, I presume. But when you watch and you see people's reactions, as you say, you can actually get a feel for what they are thinking rather than actually just hear the words themselves. And it's great to occasionally look at the screen and then walk away and just see someone's reaction to your question.

David Bain: You mentioned Skype there as well. They've certainly, I feel, missed a bit of a trick because they were such an important tool five to 10 years ago. And it just feels that they haven't evolved that much and of course, Zoom has come along and almost taken the whole market now. They are being used all over the place by everyone at the moment.

David Bain: But talking about specific technologies, let's try and get very specific about the ones that you actually use. So starting off with number three, which are the top three tools in your current martech stack and why?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, firstly, I want to say this was so hard because I use so many tools. But I think I've got them down to a good three. So number three, oddly enough, considering you've already mentioned Mark Asquith is actually Captivate. So Captivate is the system I use to host my podcast and it's Mark Asquith's baby. So yes, that's my number three.

David Bain: He'll certainly be happy to hear that. But he's done a lovely job with podcasting over the last few years. It just seems that Mark has just become a Goliath in the podcasting world within the last couple of years or so. He's just done such a great job, even just go into the platform to begin with. And it's a pleasure to use.

David Bain: I love technology that actually feels enjoyable to use. You jump onto several martech platforms and you think, "Uh, I don't really want to be on here. It doesn't feel nice to use." So you don't end up using it. Maybe that's a mistake. I'm not sure. But perhaps a tool has just good to be good-looking.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah, and honestly, I think there are some tools like that that are very good and when I moved from Libsyn to Captivate, there were things I missed about Libsyn from a functionality point of view, especially on the reporting side. I'm an absolute demon for looking at my stats and stuff.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, there were things that I felt Captivate lacked at the time. They are constantly changing and updating and it's fabulous. But the thing that was so lovely is the user side of it and the look and the feel. And I know that sounds like a really lame thing to say but when you use technology, it should be about the functionality and about the how clever it is.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, actually, for me, if it's not nice to look at and if it's not user-friendly and beautiful looking, then I can't engage with it. And for me, and this is not me saying bad stuff about Libsyn but for me, it just didn't cut it. And every time I went in there, like you said, I went in there, was like, "Uh." I didn't feel natural in there like I wanted to spend time in there and look around and do things.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Also, just uploading stuff. I never did it then, I had a team member who did it. But, I upload my own podcast in Captivate because it's so easy. So for me, they just took a need that was being fulfilled but they did it in such a nice and prettier way, which I know sounds ridiculous. But it is pretty.

David Bain: Absolutely. It's a key part of it. I've had a conversation with Mark, obviously, about the hosting of this podcast, Martech Stacked, as well because we're recording episode three at the moment, so I haven't even got it uploaded to a podcast host yet. Now, I've used Libsyn for years as well. But, it's highly likely that I'll use Captivate for this particular show.

David Bain: The reason being is, it's definitely got, well, I've got a good relationship with Mark. But, it definitely seems to be a nicer platform to use. The key question for me was, ContentCal don't use WordPress and so there is not going to be a native plugin to get the show up and running on there. So my question was, "Okay, can I quite easily within Captivate select the permalink that I want to use for each show episode?" And obviously the home URL because within the RSS feed, I want to ensure that it's SEO friendly to ContentCal. And certainly, that seems to be the case.

David Bain: But that was the main question that I wanted to cover. But it must be a challenge for a marketing technologist to think of all the questions that people have and to try to incorporate all their wishes and desires within the platform.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah, absolutely. And it was funny little things that I was like, "Are you going to be doing this." Because it was like, you get used to something. I got used to seeing my stats in a certain way or it showed me a month or by this type or that type. But like you said, it's like an absolute minefield in terms of every possible option for every possible thing that someone might want. Honestly, my hat goes off to anybody that builds technology because I don't even know how they even start this stuff. I think it's phenomenal.

David Bain: So, that was your choice number three. What's your number two martech tool?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Okay, so number two. I know some people would be like, "Really?" But, honestly, I love it. And it's got to be Canva. And I know that some people are going to be sad, they're going, "Canva, really? Could you not think of something more smarter or cleverer?" But honestly, I think what Canva have done and what Canva give small businesses today is massive. I think it's a tool and one of the ways I looked at what tools I use is when you go into, I use Google Chrome and you have the home buttons of the things that you go into all the time, that's what I looked at. What am I going into every single day?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And Canva is something we go into every single day. Me, the team use it, I recommend it to everybody. And I just think the, like I said, the option that it's given people now as business owners to come up with amazing stuff for their businesses I think is phenomenal.

David Bain: It's a lovely, easy way to share online as well. You keep on mentioning your team as well and of course, you can give your team access to everything that you're doing as well. And if you use something that's quite high end, Photoshop or something like that, then obviously, they've got to have the technology, they've got to really understand the technology as well. But with something like Canva, they can go in there and very quickly become an expert at using it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah. And that's the kind of key thing, really. Because I do have a designer on the team and I remember for ages, he would be ... Because he is one of the only people who comes and sits and works with me which is really odd. I've known him for a long, long time. But he literally comes to my home and we sit and work in the same place and he would be designing something that I'd ask him to do and I'd say to him, because what I want to do when you finish designing that, I want to take it into Canva and I want to do this.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And he used to literally rip me something terrible. Canva is awful, what are you doing? You're pretending to be a designer. And we'd be laughing about it. And then one day, after several months I hasten to add, he was sat with me and I was doing something in Canva and, through gritted teeth, he actually said, "It's pretty good, actually, isn't it?"

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And I was like, "Yes, it's really good." So I use it in conjunction with using my designer. So what he will do, because I can use InDesign, I'm not very good at Photoshop and Illustrator, I'm not great. And we do have the Adobe Suite and he does. But what we tend to do is he will create something for me and then I will get him to give me every single of that creation as a transparent png. And then I will upload everything into Canva, I will create or recreate what he's designed and then, we duplicate it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Because in all seriousness, I couldn't afford, and I don't know many people who could, a designer to create every social media post you have to do. Or come up with all the little quirky things you need to do when you've got an online academy or every single presentation or every whatever. So for me, Canva really is a brilliant way in terms of getting an initial design. So you've got someone who's got an eye because that's the other thing, though I do worry about with Canva.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Is that people go in and they go mad and it's like, "No, no, no. Use your brand colors, don't go crazy on all the different amazing stuff it can do." You still need an eye for it. But if you've got someone that you can work with who can give you those elements, you can easily replicate things.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And the other thing that's amazing at Canva is you can get all these different designs and templates and suggestions and now they are doing things like GIFs and videos and I just think they got in at a time that was a really good time for them. And I know there is others that have tried to get in as well but haven't hit the market like Canva did.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But they've just created something that, like you said, is easily transferrable, easy to use. You can get hold of it anywhere. And you really don't need to have ... I mean, if anybody has ever tried to do anything in Photoshop, honestly, this is like doing another degree because it's really, really tricky. So I just think Canva has done an amazing job and we use it constantly.

David Bain: Yeah, the thing about Photoshop or a software like that, it's incredible what you can do. But, you almost have to be focusing in on that piece of software full-time to get everything you can out of it. I love transparent PNGs as well. And I think what you said about setting up brand templates is key. You can set up some beautiful brand templates that then just any layperson can pick up and add a few photos, other images or pieces of text to them to make them very personalized but key and memorable to your brand as well.

David Bain: A few months ago, I was really fortunate to interview Guy Kawasaki and Guy Kawasaki is a brand evangelist for Canva. And he's had an extensive background for Apple and other massive brands. But he was saying that finally, towards the tail end of my life, I have become a brand evangelist for a company that actually is just incredible. And all I have to do is just be there and just help a little bit.

David Bain: And people visit the page as perhaps a result of me sharing it. But they stick with it and they love it. You can't be a brand evangelist for a brand that isn't like that. And I remember, you said that you've had 16 years of marketing experience in the past, I've been a marketer for a fairly lengthy time myself as well and I've certainly marketed for brands that aren't quite so popular in the past as well.

David Bain: And that was a challenge, historically. But it's become almost impossible now because if you're trying to market a brand or a product that just isn't that popular, even driving traffic to it, but whenever they sign up or they have the product experience, they are going to write negative reviews and not use the product. So it almost does a negative service to the brand.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah, absolutely right. And I think that is so the truth. You could have the best marketing in the world but if your product or service is terrible then good luck to you because you're going to have a real hard trouble doing anything with it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So for me, like you said, what Canva has done is they have an amazing product. And when people go in and use it, they want to go in and use it again and they use it again and they use it again. And that's just purely down to them and how they've obviously identified the need for something like them and then they've gone and done it brilliantly. So I think yeah, they are amazing.

David Bain: Absolutely. Well, Canva is number two though. What's number one?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, number one, for me, is Kajabi. So, if you've not heard of Kajabi, basically, Kajabi is like an all in one. So, before I used Kajabi, I used things like Infusionsoft for my email systems and for funnels. I used Leadpages for my landing pages. I used WishList Member for my membership site. I used, obviously, payment processors. I used lots of different systems and I was really nervous to go to Kajabi.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And can I tell you the story about how I joined Kajabi because it's quite funny?

David Bain: Yeah, go for it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, basically, I knew of Kajabi but it was quite a lot of money and I was like, "I don't know." And I was really happy with Infusionsoft and Leadpages. I love Leadpages. I was really happy because of the systems and I knew that Kajabi did everything. But I wasn't keen. And even though I was part of James Wedmore's next level group and he's a huge fan of it, I still wasn't keen in terms of moving to it. And I didn't want to move everything. So I've got everything set up.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Anyway, Kajabi put on a conference last year, so back in 2019. And the lineup for the conference was unbelievable. Literally, the who is who in digital marketing. So you have the likes of Rachel Hollis, Brendon Burchard, you had James Wedmore, Amy Porterfield, Jasmine Star, you literally have the most amazing people there.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And so I wanted to go to the conference but to go to the conference, you had to be a customer. So I actually signed up for Kajabi for a month trial, bought my ticket for the conference and then canceled. So I didn't even stick with the program, stick with it then.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So I turned up at this conference and it was in Irvine, in California. And I turned up and everyone there was a customer, obviously, because you had to be a customer to get a ticket. And I said to them, "Well, what if I cancel?" And they said, "That's fine, as long as you're a customer when you buy the ticket."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, I got there and everyone was a Kajabi customer and they loved Kajabi. The team were amazing, the owner was unbelievable, the founders were brilliant, the people who came on stage and talked about the support that Kajabi had given them. Literally, it was like for three days, I just sat in this room of everybody going, "This tool is amazing." And also, no one was selling it because everyone there was a customer.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So it wasn't like they were doing a selling job on me or anything like that. So, I left, signed up and started to move everything across. But basically, Kajabi does everything. So it looks after my emails, it sends my emails for me. It does my sequences, it creates my landing pages. It does my opt-in forms. It hosts my membership. So my membership and my courses are all hosted on Kajabi.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: It does my payment processor, it does my checkout page. It even can do my own website although I do have my site through WordPress. So for me, it's when you look at having all those different system that do all those things, I love the fact that one system does it all. So actually although it might look expensive, by the time you look at the price against having all the individual stuff.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And the thing that I hate the most is trying to get stuff to talk to each other. So, that is so hard. And I am not the most techy person in the world. So, I like simplicity hence why I like things like Canva and Captivate because they are not built for techy people. They are built, I was going to say ordinary people but that sounds so wrong. But they are built for people, that is not their world.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, for me, that's what I liked about having Kajabi that I didn't have to suddenly try and use Zapier to do something or try and get those two systems to talk to each other and then try and work out how this all fits together. So it took, and I'm not even kidding, it took about two whole weeks full-time for one of the team to move everything from everywhere else to Kajabi, to recreate the landing pages, to recreate the sequences. It was an absolute job and a half to do.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, that was because at that point, I was well into using the other systems. I had a lot of lead magnets, I had lots of sequences, I had lots of different things going on. So when we moved, it was hard work.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, I have to say, I just love everything about them really. They're not the best email platform in the world. They are not the best landing page system in the world. And there are others. But if you want one that does it all then for me, that's what I wanted. And I wanted me to be able to do it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, if I wanted something changing in the academy, I could go in and change it without any difficulty. If I wanted to upload some more content, I could do it. So, it was really about me having a hands on control, having everything in one place and having a system where, and this is what's really interesting because actually ContentCal are really similar in the sense of they have an amazing team. They have lovely people. And I like working with lovely people.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So for me, Kajabi did exactly the same. They had a lovely team, lovely people, their support is great. Even things like ... So they have a Kajabi hero program where, as you sell more and you earn money on the platform, because obviously, they can see because it's going through the payment processor, you hit certain points.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So when you earn your first thousand dollars, they send you out something. When you hit 10,000, they send you something. When you hit 50,000, they send you something else. And the same with when you get people to sign up to Kajabi, they send you something because you've got someone to sign up as well as the fact that you get an affiliate commission as well.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, I'm a big fan of I'm really honest about the stuff I use. I'm really honest about the good and the bad and the why you'd want to use it. And if you have an online program or want to take online business seriously through a course or a membership or a coaching program then Kajabi, honestly, I've used so many things and for me, Kajabi just has it all. And they are constantly adding stuff to the system.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: They work so hard to make sure that they're going to be one of the best out there. So, for me, that had to be my number one.

David Bain: I'm sure you've sold quite a few people on at least the possibility of checking it out. I've known of Kajabi for quite a while, actually. I haven't really test-driven the software but I grew up in the internet marketing world of the early 2000s. So, I'm aware of people like John Reese, people like Brad Fallon and people like Andy Jenkins.

David Bain: Now, Brad Fallon and Andy Jenkins used to run a brand called StomperNet and that was a set of internet marketing training from probably 15 years ago or so. And they used to do massive, incredible conferences. I went to one in Atlanta, Georgia back in about 2008, 2009 or so. And Andy Jenkins, I believe, actually went on to found Kajabi.

David Bain: Now, from what I understand, I don't think he's with Kajabi anymore. I haven't... Teresa Heath-Wareing:

Yes, this rings a bell.

David Bain: So I believe that other people are running the business now. It's great to hear that the software is a pleasure to use. I think the main concern that I would have is what happens if the software doesn't progress, doesn't evolve and you become unsatisfied with it.

David Bain: Would you be scared of actually having to move away from Kajabi?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: It's funny because like I said, there are elements of the system that there are better versions of it. But it's just standalone products. So I think for where I am in my business right now, for how much control I want on it, Kajabi is wonderful and I love it. And I know it can grow because the likes of James Wedmore and Amy Porterfield and Jasmine Star use it and they are huge and have thousands and thousands of people in their programs.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: For me, if I wanted to move, it would be a job. It's not to say I wouldn't do it, it's not to say I wouldn't move from a platform if it didn't progress because I think when I look at, let's take The Membership Guys for instance, their membership, they do a lot of stuff bespoke for their own membership because they Mike can build stuff so he has the ability to control exactly what goes into his own membership.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And I do look at their membership and think, "Oh, that is cool, I would like to have that. That one day, where I can have that much control over it." But I have to say, the updates that they're doing and as long as they continue to do this and as long as they continue to stick by what they've said and continue going along the path they're going, then I honestly think they will constantly keep up with the changes that are happening.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So they already have an app, they already have the ability to turn our programs, our courses, our memberships into an app. It's not something I'm using right now but they are doing that. They have recognized that their email system is not and is nowhere near as fancy as something like Infusionsoft. But to be honest, I used to use probably a tenth of what Infusionsoft could do. So, actually, when I look at Kajabi, Kajabi can do everything I need it to do and do it well.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, but they are going to progress that. They've changed the way that you build your landing pages, they've given you a lot more functionality in that. And again, that's so much better. But it's not drag and drop like Leadpages. So, I think as well, the other thing about any technology is you've got to get in there and you've got to use it and then suddenly, you get to a point or you should get to a point where you're like, "Yeah, get it."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Granted, it was different from what I used to use before and it took ... So, Paul who did the transfer and I, when we were going through it, he was so frustrated because he'd be looking at it like, "Oh, I want it just to do this because this is what Leadpages used to do and it doesn't." And I'd be like, "I know, that's really annoying."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And strangely, I took someone through it the other day, one of the 90 day program clients. She is using Kajabi and she got really stuck and I was like, "Do you know what? Let's get on a call, I know I can show you how to do this in 10 minutes." So we got on a call, she's like, "But why does it do that? That's so irritating." I'm like, "I know. But it just is the way it is."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But it's just what you're used to. So if you're serious about this and you haven't used anything yet then great. You're in for a treat because you're not going to know any different. But if you have used other systems, it does take a while to get used to it. But it's the same way as, gosh, when I first got Infusionsoft, oh man, it was so difficult. Literally, it made my heart hurt on an hourly basis.

David Bain: I think most people or many people I've heard have said that about that particular brand. Have they not changed the brand as well, recently?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah, it's Keap. It's Infusionsoft by Keap now. So, yeah because obviously they were dubbed "Confusionsoft" for a very long time. So maybe that's one of the reasons. But it's an amazing platform. And if you get it, oh my goodness, you can do some phenomenal stuff.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, the thing was, I wasn't doing that because I didn't need that level of detail. And actually, where Kajabi is and where they're going, I think they will keep up with my needs. But, the thing that I think will make me move is if I get to a point where I want to completely bespoke everything in terms of my membership and any of the programs I have online and that will come down to look and feel which is why I won't put my website with them, which is why I have my website on WordPress even though you can have your websites through Kajabi, and again, if you're starting out, literally, the most amazing tool for you to use because it does everything.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But, for me, I like the fact that I have more control over how it looks and feels in WordPress. So I won't be moving just as of yet. Maybe in the future but not now.

David Bain: This is the kind of question that's also, I guess, to a certain degree open to interpretation and depending on a specific business's needs and the background of whoever happens to be using the software or the business owner, so maybe listener or viewer, wherever you're watching this, what is your preference? Is your preference to have very specific individual pieces of software for each task and to try to get the best piece of software for that task? Or to try and limit the quantity for software that you use within your business or marketing departments to perhaps set things up, to make it more scalable by doing that.

David Bain: I think there are pros and cons with different ways but it's good to get different perspectives on that. I'd like to just move on to just getting a quick understanding also of your current content marketing strategy and how your tools that you use actually integrate with that. So it's possibly going back to Canva here. So, just as an overview, what is your current content marketing strategy in terms of what type of content you publish, where you publish it and obviously the tools that you use to support that particular strategy?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yes. So, obviously, content for me is huge. And I publish a lot of content on social media. Now, I have my podcast that comes out every single Monday and obviously, I put that through Captivate and that gets also scheduled everywhere through social media.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So that really is my main core content. But the rest of my content is social media content. And I'm scheduling it through Agorapulse, it's something I've used for quite a while now and I'm very honest about the fact that I was given Agorapulse and it's wonderful and I really, really enjoy it.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And basically, what that allows me to do is be very active. So I will schedule seven to nine tweets a day. I will schedule two posts on LinkedIn, two posts on Facebook. I'm very active on Instagram stories which I don't schedule. I do them obviously ad hoc and as I feel like it. Strangely, the one place I don't schedule is Instagram feed and I'm terrible. Seriously, I haven't posted for days and I'm really cross with myself. And it's like a constant ... There's like a wall in something going on.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But I need to get over that and I need to just get on and post. But because I don't schedule, so for me, without scheduling content, I would never post. So I literally sat down at the beginning of the year and spent about six hours solidly creating stuff in Canva, coming up with what I wanted to say about it, evergreen stuff, obviously. And putting it in to my social media scheduler so that it could go out when I needed it.

David Bain: I've never loved Instagram, actually. And I've tended to post more frequently or enjoyed Twitter or LinkedIn more. Do you think it's a mistake as a marketer not to embrace as many social media platforms as possible?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Do you know what? If you're not a marketer, then I tell you you only do one or two. You do the ones that you love, where your customers are and that you find easy because otherwise, it's hell on earth trying to do all this content. For a marketer, though, in this space, how could I not? How could I not be on every platform? I feel like I need to have a presence on every platform.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Now, there are some-

David Bain: Are you on TikTok?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: No. No, I'm not. And I'm rebelling. I'm rebelling. I'm rebelling against it because the problem is, I have a daughter who is 10 and a stepson who is 17 and they are on TikTok and they show me these videos and without being mean, I sit there and I'm like, "I could not give a damn about these people dancing." Because I'm an old lady compared to them.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So for me, I think if I did go on TikTok, which I can't see happening any time soon, but if I did, it would be videos of me telling people what to do in terms of content or marketing or whatever. It would not be me doing crazy dances with my kids because one, they would not want to be in a video with me and two, that's not me. If you come round my house and we have a gin, then maybe at some point. I might do a crazy dance. But me doing that online is never going to happen.

David Bain: I love the strapline on your website. The strapline on your website says, "I'm British and I love tea and by tea I mean gin." I quite like this.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Exactly. In fact, I'm the only British person I know who doesn't like tea. So if you see me drinking tea, it's definitely a gin, it's not tea at all. But yeah. That platform I'm not on. So I take it back, actually, because I say I'm on every platform. I'm not on TikTok. But I am on all the others.

David Bain: You just never know in a year's time. Because I remember talking to a top marketer who may be remain nameless at the moment, back in early 2008. And they said something like, "Oh, this Twitter thing. This is just ... I don't know why anyone would want to waste time on that."

Teresa Heath-Wareing: That's hilarious.

David Bain: But they spend a lot of time on Twitter nowadays, yes.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Yeah, and that's the thing. I don't want to just rule it out but I just think where I am and what I do, at the moment, it doesn't fit. I can't see how I'd create consistent content for it without adding a whole lot of work to my world. And I'm not. At this point, I'm not ready to put that time in.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: If and when it gets to the point or if I can process it and get one of the team to do it, so let's say for instance we get to the point where we start using the podcast recordings as things to go on TikTok then, if I can literally say to a team member, "Okay, now I want a video and this is the process. I want you to take this, do this, do this, put it on TikTok, great thanks." Then maybe that's how I'll appear on TikTok.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But it's got to be in a process. I can't see how I would create something brand new content-wise for it. At this time, I just don't have the time to do it and also, for me, the other platforms suit me better and work better for me. So my two favorites are Twitter and Instagram because I like the fact that I can reach out and have conversations.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And my ego is holding back from using TikTok because I can see, people are going, "Look how many followers I got, look how much engagement I got, look at ..." And it would be my ego that would want that. And that's why I need to step back and go, "Not yet." Because, actually, I need to look at is it going to bring me any customers.

David Bain: So, just to finish up our conversation. Is there a piece of marketing technology or perhaps not a piece of marketing technology, perhaps something that doesn't exist yet and you've got some kind of process in your business at the moment that you would want to automate but you just feel that you can't automate because the functionality isn't out there or you haven't found it to be able to bring in that automation, that piece of technology to do the task that you want to do.

David Bain: So, perhaps, is there a piece of marketing technology that needs to be created to solve a frustration that you've currently got in your business?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: That's a really good question. I don't know that I have the foresight to answer a question like that. Like I said, I am not one for fancy technology. I think for me, being able to get some real data around the quality of the posts or the quality of the people online. I know I've worked with quite a few businesses in the past where we've looked at influencers and we've looked at that sort of thing. And there's been some amazing technologies and showing you whether these people are true and real and that sort of thing. And they've come and gone.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: But I would really love the platforms to be able to show that because I know, without doubt, there are people out there, telling people what to do and do not have the real stats to back them up. And that worries me and frustrates me because when I tell people what to do or when I suggest or support or advise, it's because I've done it. And because I've done it lots and lots of times. And I know what I'm talking about.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: And I don't buy followers and I don't buy engagement and I don't do those things. And I'm really honest about it. I'm really honest if something is completely bombed and I don't know why. So for me, having sometimes I think some of the people who are the most well-known in industries, it's not because they're particularly the best or the most brilliant. It's because they shout the loudest and therefore, to see some way of seeing that credibility would be really helpful, I think, for people to know ... Because otherwise, they're going to follow them blindly and think, "Why haven't I got this?"

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Well, you haven't got it because you haven't bought it or you haven't got it because you didn't cheat the system that way or whatever it is. So yeah, I think that kind of tool just to make the transparency even more would be great.

David Bain: Great thoughts. Thank you so much for your time and your tips today, Teresa. What's the best way for the listener to find out more about you and what you do?

Teresa Heath-Wareing: So, if you just go to any platform, not TikTok, and type in Teresa Heath-Wareing, you'll find me. Like I said, I am most often on Twitter and Instagram. Or you can find me at

David Bain: Wonderful stuff. Thanks again.

Teresa Heath-Wareing: Thank you so much David, it's been brilliant.

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